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	<title>Comments on: VA+WAF: that&#8217;s hot!</title>
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		<title>By: It&#8217;s BlueHat week &#124; Mike Andrews</title>
		<link>http://www.mikeandrews.com/2008/06/19/vawaf-thats-hot/comment-page-1/#comment-240</link>
		<dc:creator>It&#8217;s BlueHat week &#124; Mike Andrews</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 05:48:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] BlackHat time I was talking to Jeremiah Grossman about the whole WAF issue and we though it would be a good topic to present somewhere – the pros and cons of WAFs vs [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] BlackHat time I was talking to Jeremiah Grossman about the whole WAF issue and we though it would be a good topic to present somewhere – the pros and cons of WAFs vs [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Armando Romeo</title>
		<link>http://www.mikeandrews.com/2008/06/19/vawaf-thats-hot/comment-page-1/#comment-202</link>
		<dc:creator>Armando Romeo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 20:50:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikeandrews.com/2008/06/19/vawaf-thats-hot/#comment-202</guid>
		<description>&lt;cite&gt;If everything were patched, configured securely, and had updates applied to them immediately (forgetting for the moment zero-days and non-published vulns), then they wouldn’t be vulnerable right? It certainly would keep everyone on their toes, but I don’t think I know one person that would recommend that approach and I think we are in exactly that position with webapps today. &lt;/cite&gt;

Mike, I think you&#039;re missing one point here or maybe you forgot to mention: network firewalls deal with a fixed pattern that is network protocols. I know what protocols/services can be of &quot;interest&quot; to a hacker and I can easily protect them. Firewalls usefulness certainly depends upon who writes the rules but they can&#039;t be compared to WAF&#039;s as they have to defend from different kind of threats. Web applications have some degree of uniqueness (you must know all of its parts if you don&#039;t want to stick to a permit all).  Attacks can be encoded. Some certain kind of attacks can&#039;t even be detected (CSRF to name one). 

So what security are WAF vendors giving? Andre Gironda has published a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.tssci-security.com/archives/2008/06/23/week-of-war-on-wafs-day-1-top-ten-reasons-to-wait-on-wafs/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;nice post about it today&lt;/a&gt;. 
WAF surely can help if you find a vulnerability in the middle of the night as you say. But it shouldn&#039;t be called security.  It&#039;s a misbelief being sold not real long-term security. Customers (companies) are not always educated to understand this difference.


&lt;cite&gt;Is there a market for VA+WAF - I’m sure there is - it addresses a need (or pain-point) that exists out there. &lt;/cite&gt; 

That market has a name. Three letters, starts with P and ends with I. ;)

Keep the great job up, Mike</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><cite>If everything were patched, configured securely, and had updates applied to them immediately (forgetting for the moment zero-days and non-published vulns), then they wouldn’t be vulnerable right? It certainly would keep everyone on their toes, but I don’t think I know one person that would recommend that approach and I think we are in exactly that position with webapps today. </cite></p>
<p>Mike, I think you&#8217;re missing one point here or maybe you forgot to mention: network firewalls deal with a fixed pattern that is network protocols. I know what protocols/services can be of &#8220;interest&#8221; to a hacker and I can easily protect them. Firewalls usefulness certainly depends upon who writes the rules but they can&#8217;t be compared to WAF&#8217;s as they have to defend from different kind of threats. Web applications have some degree of uniqueness (you must know all of its parts if you don&#8217;t want to stick to a permit all).  Attacks can be encoded. Some certain kind of attacks can&#8217;t even be detected (CSRF to name one). </p>
<p>So what security are WAF vendors giving? Andre Gironda has published a <a href="http://www.tssci-security.com/archives/2008/06/23/week-of-war-on-wafs-day-1-top-ten-reasons-to-wait-on-wafs/" rel="nofollow">nice post about it today</a>.<br />
WAF surely can help if you find a vulnerability in the middle of the night as you say. But it shouldn&#8217;t be called security.  It&#8217;s a misbelief being sold not real long-term security. Customers (companies) are not always educated to understand this difference.</p>
<p><cite>Is there a market for VA+WAF &#8211; I’m sure there is &#8211; it addresses a need (or pain-point) that exists out there. </cite> </p>
<p>That market has a name. Three letters, starts with P and ends with I. <img src='http://www.mikeandrews.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Keep the great job up, Mike</p>
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